Monday, September 8, 2008

Discrimination : Myth Or Not?

I was planning a post on the Indian Army/CRPf etc in Kashmir and why there is an immediate need for de-militarization. But this post is inspired by the comment or rather article cut copied and posted by my friend Shah who is now my most avid reader and my best critic.

To my other readers please read the 7th comment for the previous post by Shah. This post is in response to that. This is also a cut copy paste from Jaidev Jamwal's researched data.Thanks Jaidev.

Compare size and population of Jammu Vs Kashmir. Jammu is bigger with more voters, but pays more taxes almost 2/3rds of total. Then see what we get less of a lot of things.

1) TOTAL AREA (sq KM)-----------Jammu 26293````````Kashmir 15948

2) VOTERS------------------------ Jammu 3091193`````Kashmir 2986670

3) LOK SABHA SEATS------------- Jammu 2 ```Kashmir 3

4) STATE ASSEMBLY SEATS------- Jammu 37 `````Kashmir 46

5) REVENUE COLLECTION ---- --- Jammu 70% `````Kashmir 30%

Examples

a) Electricity(2007-08)
Target---- Jammu 417 crore`````Kashmir 519 crore
Realised ---Jammu 443 crore ```Kashmir 246 crore

b) Sales Tax since 1957-2007--- Jammu 2474.8crore ````Kashmir 1075.2 crore

6) a)Non-plan Expenditure------- Jammu 35% ````` Kashmir 65%

Notice the discrepancies and compare the size and population of 2 divisions.
Each figure is in crores and it refers to the 8th and 9th Plan respectively.


1)Agriculture____ Jammu 57.6 ---Kashmir 104.5 ~~~Jammu 147.3 ---Kashmir 253.7

2) Irrigation____ Jammu 91.1---Kashmir 136.6~~~Jammu 112.7 ---Kashmir 210

3)Roads & Building __Jammu 144.2 ---Kashmir 247.2~~~Jammu 229.3---Kashmir 403.6

4)Health ______ Jammu 123.8---Kashmir 135.34~~~Jammu 229.3--- Kashmir 274.45

5)Tourism ______ Jammu 15.2---Kashmir 34.39~~~ Jammu 34.9 --- Kashmir 58

6)Power______ Jammu 516.75 ---Kashmir 775.1~~~Jammu 56.94--- Kashmir 85.4

7) Sewerage____ Jammu 2.9 ---Kashmir 6.8~~~Jammu 6.2---Kashmir 14.6

8) Drainage____ Jammu 20.37---Kashmir 47.53~~~Jammu 27.84---Kashmir 64.96



Details compiled from J&K State Govt sources and
http://www.planningcommission.nic.in/plans/stateplan/stplsf.htm
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&issueid=68&task=view&id=13627§ionid=23&Itemid=1
http://dailyexcelsior.com


Though it may seem like a Jammu VS. Kahmir debate, it was not intended to be so. Though it will probably turn into one in the near future. I had to put these facts up to throw light on what is really happening in the State and why the people of Jammu who suffer an identity crisis beyond their state borders stood up unanimously raising their voice for their rights. This was not a communal issue but more of a fight for our rights to land and property in our own state. The land was not going to be used for a training camp for the militants, it was not for an institution which would hold mass conversions...it was going to be used for no subversive activities.

It was for some necessary provisions for the yatris. There are no clean, private toilets, no hot water and the the pilgrims are fleeced by the locals and charged 5-10times for everything. A piligrim is charged anything upwards of 1800 rs. for spending one night in a cloth tent shared by 5-10 other people in sub-zero temperatures and occasional snowfall, landslides, hail and rain. 250 pilgrims died because of bad weather conditions in the recent past. Was a demand by the state subjects to provide basic amenities to pilgrims too much to ask for?

The peaceful protests by the Jammuites, despite anti-national comments like....'this is our land, agar le sakte ho to le lo"...and "We will not give an inch of our land"
is a measure of the kind of people they are. The Dogras and Ladakhis of the State who had long decided that they are an integral part of India have to suffer because of the indecisive, misguided and leaderless Kashmir. I do not condone the call for 'Azadi' but I do not support it too. But being labelled as communal pushes me against the wall. I too feel like calling for 'Azadi' ...azadi from this troubled paradise, azadi from obscurity and invisibilty of my region and azadi from the Article 370 which ruins my chances to live 'normally' in the nation state of my choice.

13 comments:

Shah said...

WELL THE EXTREME REACTION WAS NOT A SHOCK TO ME..FOR FURTHER DISCUSSIONS ONTHE TOPIC U CAN WRITE TO..alee.andrabi@gmail.com.
AND ONE MORE THING , WHAT DO U KNOW ABOUT THE YATRA...HOW MANY PPL FROM JAMMU COME FOR YATRA...WHO PROVIDES TENTS ???PPL WHO WANT TO STAY LONGER GO THROUGH PAHALGAM..THATS ANOTHER STORY WE HAVE HOTELS THERE BUT IF SOMEONE WANTS TO SLEEP IN A TENT OUT OF CHOICE ..WHO CAN FORCE .CLEAN TOILETS..WELL EXACTLY THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING AS A HOTELIER FOR PAST SO MANY YEARS...THAT WE HAVE A STRUCTURE IN PLACE ...BUT WHO CONDUCTS THE YATRA ..SASB BOARD ..BETTER ASK THEM?
BELIEVE ME KASHMIR IS NOT LEADER LESS...I HAVE NEVER SEEN KASHMIR SO UNITED ...AND I THANK JAMMUPPL FOR THAT ...IT WAS THE BLOCKADE THAT DID THE UNIFICATION TRICK...AND AS A WELL READ PERSON U FOR SURE KNOW WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DEMAND AZAADI....IF U DIFFER THEN READ HISTORY...

Chrysalis said...

I know the history beginning from Kashyap ..Gonanda 1 ...Lohara Dynasty..Muslim Rule, Mughals, Afghans, Sikh, Dogra Rule...you can refer to my post on it...

Well good for you,if you think Kashmir has great and unified leadership...I beg to differ.

Unification of people ..I guess that has happened with Jammu region too which has woken from its 61 yr. long slumber.The protests over a peice of land has thrown things for them in perspective too.

Well you are right not too many people from Jammu go for the yatra...so ask yourself what it was about ...and for a minute leave the BJP influencing theory aside. BJP did not have such a sway over such a huge number of people ...The nature of the agitation was similar in the valley and in Jammu this time..A People's Movement..

As for choice of staying in the hotels why do you not throw light on how the hotels are priced for the yatris?? I have heard a lot of complaints about being fleeced and being overcharged for most of the things....The yatris come from different social classes...some as you may guess not as rich ...

Jaidev Jamwal said...

In reply to Shah's post, Muslims who provide facilities to piligrims don't do it for free. They fleece them like anything. People are forced to spend nights in hotel lobbies and sometimes in buses that they came in. If there was a amove to ease the perssure after approval from High Court and Govt(PDP & NC included), why so much opposition?
Kashmiris survive on money that India doles out. If you don't consider India as your country, why do yu demand money for everything? Why do you study in govt schools colleges, take up govt and pvt jobs all over the country?
Why not go to pakistan or demand PoK back?
One fact that nobody mentions is that ow temporary toilets being used in Amarnath camps were donated by authorities to earthquake victims mosly in Kashmir and uri districts? That was not a Hindu aggression?

Jaidev Jamwal said...

One thing more. Your propoganda about "Blockade" is utter rubbish. There was NO BLOCKADE of highway. I travel everyday to my workplace on highway(40km). Trucks were not allowed to pass on one day only, 1st August. After that Army barricaded every road leading to highway in whole of Jammu region. There was army all over the highway patrolling and repelling protesters back to their homes. My house is not far from highway and I saw dozens of trucks passing daily from Jammu towards Kashmir. Shortage if any of commodities in srinagar was of your own doing. Bandhs called by Hurriyat and PDP were main cause of shortages. Most of apple crop doesn't ripen before late august and september. What fruit rotted in august itself is way beyond my comprehension.
Now these "fruit growers" got 300 crores fo fruit that they didn't even pick. Classic case of appeasement

jimmy said...

WE need to unite as people of same state instead of figting over regional and religious reasons.Unite for the sake of our childern

Shah said...

JAIDEV
My friend you seem to make statements just to fill in the space.For ur agruments put forward is say

1.What do u mean that muslims don't do anything for free for the yatri's.Where in the world does that kind of a thing happen apart from may a langar facility is provided.The first and foremost thing one needs for any religious pilgrimage of any religion is cash to complete the process.
2.Fleecing the tourists??? well where does this one come from.Most of the tourists have pre-booked arrangements with the travel agents(who incidentally are non kashmiri's)so they arrive on a package deal.The rates hence forth are put forward by them.Anyways during peak tourists season in any neck of the woods with demand going up ..the rates are bound to go higher...so don't u think when during this summer airways were fleecing tourists who came to kashmir with such expensive air fare..it happens through out the world....be shimla...shanghai...las vegas...u name it.
3.UR point of forcing ppl to stay in lobbies ..let me tell u now thing it doesn't make any business sense to do so..the repeat value of customers is important...leave that aside how can someone be forced to do so...there is no chance of all what u say happening ..as the Indians forces are known for there vigile as they are ever present...so wouldn't they intervene...it's quiet amazing that these stories have come up now...and u say u hear...i am telling u for a fact coz i have a hotel in Pahalgam..There eas an exception in 96 when it snowed there and people took every vantage point.By the way didn't i sent u the clipping from CNN IBN (ur national news channel)..where in kashmir's are providing free food to held up yatri's during these days of turmoil.ALAS U DIDN'T TAKE NOTICE OF THAT.
4.What temporary toilets are u talking about..u never been there so . leme tell u the toilets are just a dug up ditch covered with cloth..for long i have been advocating more organized and healthier facilities ..and for those i am not aware u pays for them to be made...coz
While the Shri Amarnath Shrine Board is enriching its coffers by charging money from the poor ponywallas and roadside vendors in Pahalgam and Sonamarg, it is the state government that has to arrange with its own resources not only the security, healthcare, accommodation and other facilities for the Yatris, but even reimburse their transportation charges.
The Divisional Commissioner Jammu, in a two-page communication (No. 402/857/ANY-2008) Dated: 27.08-2008 has asked the Tourism Department to reimburse Rs 26 lakhs spent on the transportation of Sadhus from various parts of India to the Amarnath cave. The communiqué provides the details of the buses and other modes of transportation used for transporting the Sadhus to the cave along with the details of the expenditure for the same.
If the state Government is even today paying for everything to provide facilities to the Yatris, including reimbursing their bus fare, then what exactly is the role of the Shrine Board and for what purpose was the Baltal land needed? May be the Sangarsh Samiti has the answer.
5.Money been shelled out by India...i often here this argument that if kashmiri's want to separate from India ..why do they study in Indian colleges...60 yrs back when the British raj was in the sub continent didn't Indians trade with ...didn't they study in British universities...didn't the raj make railways ...places liek cannaught palce...kolkata...Parliment building & also gave a blessing in disguise the langauge which is mordern Indians biggest tool...As for us u talk like they give us montly salaries to spend ...well our resources have been drained out form last 60 years...u must be aware of the Indus Valley Treaty...the irony is that we have the capacity to produce power but we still after so much production annaully buy power worth 1600 crores...and what development was there even before 87..no electricity ..so how come we will pay the bills amounting to urs when there is so much laod shedding ..also most of us here are either farmers aor artisans ..which are mostly tax exempt....isn't Punjab one of the most prosperous states...but don't there farmers get subsidy ...for the matter of fact...Ambani are the richest Indians ...but they are not highest tax payers ... India's highest tax payer is a business man from delhi....
6.. u may not agree with blockade..by insulting 6 million ppl..tell me one thing in last 20 yrs our bandhs and curfews have amounted to 5 yrs or more of aggregate..did we ever cry out that there is a blockade..no we didn't and to tell u on thing clear ...PDP , CONGRESS AND NC ..don't have the ground strenght to organize a bandh here...u saw the trucks moving ..STRANGE SO U WORKED DURING THE CURFEW DAYS AND AGITATION IN JAMMU WHEN THE WHOLE REGION WAS CLOSED....NOW PLZZ . LEMME KNOW ARE U IN POLICE OR UR A MEMEBER OF SOME POLITICAL ALLIANCE...
and to close read this .. i am sending u a link ....hope that u take out few mins
http://www.pugwash.org/reports/rc/sa/kasmiri-water.htm

Shah said...

The Rebirth of Kashmir
They came from Bandipore and Baramulla, Pampore, Rajbagh, Sonmarg, and Uri, three to a scooter, 60 to an overloaded minibus, on foot, by bicycle, truck, rickshaw and horse-pulled tonga. Aged 8 to 68, men and women, boys and girls, waving placards and posters, hoisting banners and waving flags, miles-long convoys coursed through the streets of Srinagar as lakhs of Kashmiris descended on Idgah last Friday for the most exuberant display of their favorite new pastime, the protest party.

The demonstration was called by leading separatist politicians but you can tell it's a celebration because of the smiling faces, the sense of brotherhood, the confident glow of the righteous. The protesters are exuberant, unchained, shouting anti-India slogans and pro-freedom chants. Everywhere, Kashmiri men are starting impromptu performances of the two-step jig that's sweeping the Valley. Hands in the air, shoulders rolling, heads bobbing and right foot stomping an imaginary Indian flag, boys and men bounce in a misshapen circle, shouting, "Ragda! Ragda!" They look at each other, one to the next and again, grinning and soaking it in, almost unbelieving. They've been waiting for this day for years.

The origins of the ragda are a bit vague. Some say it began this spring when a Kashmiri hijra set an Indian flag out on the ground and, seeking a more fabulous way to denounce his oppressors, stepped on it and shouted, "Ragda! Ragda!" ("Stomp! Stomp!"). It's turned out to be contagious, and it's given this movement rhythm.

The police and Indian army troops, armed to the teeth and out in force earlier in the day, have melted away. How do you attack someone laughing and dancing joyously as he denounces you and your country?

Later on, separatists politicians would clamber up to the dais only to be lost in the din, like a drop of water trying to direct the tides. The masses would be too busy dancing and shouting and unburdening themselves in a grand group catharsis. Parties don't need to be told how to embrace the moment.

Yes, many protesters are vehemently denouncing their oppressor, India, and celebrating Pakistan and Islamist militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. But these are less acts of allegiance, more expressions of Kashmiri unity, as separatist and Muslim.

Walking to Idgah, a smiling Mehrajudin Mattoo, 63, pauses to reflect on the sea change in Kashmir. "Those days, it was the gun, everywhere," the retired civil servant tells me, thinking back to the 90's. "But this is different. This is the real Kashmir and they can't stop us. We know what we want and we know the best way to get it."

Hilal Ahmad Bhat, 26, is standing in the back of a lorry with a few dozen like-minded new friends heading towards the protest grounds. He is a teacher at a government-run school and I ask why he's protesting the very government that pays his bills and feeds his family. "It is not a question of our bread," he said. "It is a matter of our freedom, because the exploitation has gone too far. Amarnath was just a single issue, just a part of the larger struggle that's been going on for a long long time, and now we've had enough."

The tipping point was not the land transfer, but what came after. "The road blockade was the turning point," said businessman Rafiq Bhat, 40. "Kashmiris are sensitive about their land, but if you threaten to starve them, look out."

Still, that push has not prodded Kashmiris embrace the violence that's been frequent further south. "Our protests are totally peaceful – not like Jammu," added Bhat, who stayed in school when the conflict was revving up in the early 90's. He didn't think the gun was the answer. "We want a peaceful resolution to our struggle. India keeps telling the world about the militancy here, that we are terrorists. But look around, there is no violence here today. There are no terrorists. We are a peaceful people."

I spent a few weeks in Kashmir in the late 90's, lived in Srinagar from mid-2006 to mid-2007 and have visited regularly since, and suddenly it's completely new. Still kind, generous and willing to talk through the night, most Kashmiris had lost family, friends, and in the last few years been worn down by the conflict, despite the recent drop in violence. Depression and other mental illnesses quarupled from 2001 to 2007. So while Kashmir remained beautiful the shadows of the past and a lingering threat darkened the days.

No longer. The floodgates have opened and Kashmiris are releasing two decades of pain, anger, fear, frustration and loss – the pent-up emotions of the conflict generation. It is not a revolution as much as an evolution. We are witnessing the rebirth of Kashmir. For now, the insurgency is over, giving way to a broad-based non-violent movement for azadi.

And for my money, this is how freedom arrives. Not from the barrel of a gun. Not with a knock at your door in the dead of night. But from a seething, jeering, bopping mass of one. I'm reminded of a well-known reggae protest song:

Ah, no ignorance do it.
Ah, no brute force do it.
Your weapons can't do it.
So hear this!

Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Drop them
Put them away, to stay.

Kashmiris have answered the call. With the United Jehad Council announcing it will refrain from violence to allow this mass movement to take its course, so too have the militants. Who's missed the bus? Delhi. Portraying the heavy, the Indian government has imposed a curfew and, as of 25 August, begun shooting violators.

http://queondaguero.blogspot.com/2008/08/rebirth-of-kashmir.html

Chrysalis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chrysalis said...

Shah

Very good article and very enlightening...

But I am wondering how and on what basis the protests in Jammu are labelled violent versus those in Kashmir.

The Kashmiris say 'eco. blockade' was the tipping point....and the Jammuites say 'hue and cry over a piece of land for pilgrims' was the tipping point.

Can U also please tell me why and how the land order threatens the common kashmiri and why did the protests begin in the valley in the first place??

As for the nature of the movement taking a different direction........I am glad to hear that.....but I only hope that Kashmiri Muslims know what they are heading for and have a very strong blueprint of after azadi...keeping the geo political ground realities in mind.........

Shah said...

Chyrsalis

which article was enlightening ... along with jaidev i tried to answer you also on the fleecing issue...i also have left few comments on ur artcicle what where they thinking, do check them ..as far the violent nature of the protests ...the article posted in from a neutral agency ...so may be damaging the gujjar huts and burning police stations...economic blockade ...was termed as violent.
for the blue print on azaadi...well it ain't coming sometime soon...but yes a viable plan is to be made by the leaders ( as i am not one )..

Chrysalis said...

Shah

I was referring to the Rebirth of Kashmir article.

And stray incidents of violence..accepted...but overall the movt. was peaceful. Gujjar hut too were empty...summers the gujjars move to higher regions...

good hope someone is working on the blueprint of azadi...that is key

Jaidev Jamwal said...

Shah


Dude, you validated every thing I said in your post

Lets talk about toilets. Kashmiri politicians keep on saying that yatris don't suffer andy inconvenience. But according to you they have to defecate in pits. Amarnath Shrine board was supposed to provide temporary eco-friendly toilets that should have been there from the begining.

FYI many family members and friends are in Srinagar, in Police, Army and State Gov service and quite a few visited Amarnath . They paid Rs.1800 for a single person per night in a cloth tent crammed with 6 people. You call that reasonable? How far are hotels from Amarnath? How many rooms are avialabel and how many pilgrims can afford such inflated rates?

Yatris were provided free foood in some places. True, but dozens were beaten up seriously , women included in Ramban for example. FYI, Hindus in Jourian protected a mosque from some miscreants . Many of my neighbours are muslims. Throughout the protests you could see them walking freely to mosques and work place wearing skull caps and traditional Islamic/Kashmiri dress. Nobody even noticed their religion. Can you say the same about Kashmir? Your people don't even accept that Kashmiri Hindus deserve to live in land of their forefathers.
How did i notice trucks? I work in Vaishno Devi Univ. and travel daily from Jammu to Katra. Univ buses wwere plying till 14th August. Further my house is very near the national highway. So I know.

As for you so called ":freedom struggle". PLEASE, don't even compare your demand for azaadi which is based on Islamic agenda with secular and nationalist Indian freedom struggle against foreigners. Tue Britsh constructed many buildings. But al freedom fighters boycotted everything british. Freedom fighters like Subahsh Chandra Bose, gandhi, Azad, Bhagat Singh among most of others resigned from any govt position they held. Tell me 1 freedom fighter who served British.
Before militancy broke out, Kashmir was a big tourist destination. 90% of Bollywood movies were shot in Kashmir. Tourism was single handedly capable of providing enough money for whole state itself. Your "freedom fighters" shot themselves in foot when they scared away the tourists. Collapsed economy of J&K is a result of your actions. You can't blame anybody else for your mistakes. Even after all that J&K is one of the richest states in India and receives more per capita central aid than many states combined.
When I talk about India paying for Kashmiri survival, you cannot dispute it. Tell me one industry except fruits amd for last 2 years tourism,that provides any income to Kashmir?

Your allegation of neglect is utter BS.
You call yourself a hotelier still don't have any idea about tax structure. That shows how honestly you run your business. When was the alst time you paid taxes. If you ever did, you'd have know how taxes are calculated.

Jaidev Jamwal said...

Shah


Dude, you validated every thing I said in your post

Lets talk about toilets. Kashmiri politicians keep on saying that yatris don't suffer andy inconvenience. But according to you they have to defecate in pits. Amarnath Shrine board was supposed to provide temporary eco-friendly toilets that should have been there from the begining.

FYI many family members and friends are in Srinagar, in Police, Army and State Gov service and quite a few visited Amarnath . They paid Rs.1800 for a single person per night in a cloth tent crammed with 6 people. You call that reasonable? How far are hotels from Amarnath? How many rooms are avialabel and how many pilgrims can afford such inflated rates?

Yatris were provided free foood in some places. True, but dozens were beaten up seriously , women included in Ramban for example. FYI, Hindus in Jourian protected a mosque from some miscreants . Many of my neighbours are muslims. Throughout the protests you could see them walking freely to mosques and work place wearing skull caps and traditional Islamic/Kashmiri dress. Nobody even noticed their religion. Can you say the same about Kashmir? Your people don't even accept that Kashmiri Hindus deserve to live in land of their forefathers.
How did i notice trucks? I work in Vaishno Devi Univ. and travel daily from Jammu to Katra. Univ buses wwere plying till 14th August. Further my house is very near the national highway. So I know.

As for you so called ":freedom struggle". PLEASE, don't even compare your demand for azaadi which is based on Islamic agenda with secular and nationalist Indian freedom struggle against foreigners. Tue Britsh constructed many buildings. But al freedom fighters boycotted everything british. Freedom fighters like Subahsh Chandra Bose, gandhi, Azad, Bhagat Singh among most of others resigned from any govt position they held. Tell me 1 freedom fighter who served British.
Before militancy broke out, Kashmir was a big tourist destination. 90% of Bollywood movies were shot in Kashmir. Tourism was single handedly capable of providing enough money for whole state itself. Your "freedom fighters" shot themselves in foot when they scared away the tourists. Collapsed economy of J&K is a result of your actions. You can't blame anybody else for your mistakes. Even after all that J&K is one of the richest states in India and receives more per capita central aid than many states combined.
When I talk about India paying for Kashmiri survival, you cannot dispute it. Tell me one industry except fruits amd for last 2 years tourism,that provides any income to Kashmir?

Your allegation of neglect is utter BS.
You call yourself a hotelier still don't have any idea about tax structure. That shows how honestly you run your business. When was the alst time you paid taxes. If you ever did, you'd have know how taxes are calculated.